Talk about piano?

11.09.2024 12:03 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 11.09.2024 12:06)
avatar  ahlborn
#1 Talk about piano?
ah

Good morning!
I would like, if possible, to ask for some information about the reality of the piano today in Germany.
This is an organ forum, but as organists most of us also own a piano.
I wanted to ask, what is the piano market like today in Germany?
For many decades Germany has been home to glorious piano factories, and a point of reference for other nations on the quality of the instruments built: when you entered a piano shop in Italy, the difference was between German instruments (with obviously very high prices) and the rest of the world.
Today the market seems to have changed a lot; many German factories have been purchased by big Eastern factories, and often the renowned brands offer sub-brands built in the East, with much more affordable prices.
So I wonder, in Germany, is there still a real market for high-end pianos 100% made in Germany?
I am not referring to the large concert halls, which obviously still buy the grand pianos of renowned brands; but ordinary people?
Do they still invest in a high-end upright piano (which may cost 35,000 euros), when for the same price you can buy a Japanese grand piano?
Of course, these glorious brands have a market that extends beyond Germany, and exports will be huge, but I was wondering if Germans continue to buy German pianos..

P.s. Of course I also include Bösendorfer, who although not German, is in a German-speaking country..


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11.09.2024 15:14
avatar  Joni
#2 RE: Talk about piano?
Jo

Hi,

I was looking for (grand) pianos about 2 years ago. If money was not a factor, surely some German brands offer very nice instruments. But in fact, money is always a factor and for a set amount of money, you get a lot more piano if you choose Japanese brands. I'm talking only about brand new instruments here.

I played a lot of (grand) pianos at different stores and small dealers and endet up with a new Yamaha C2X grand piano for my living room. The Yamaha C-Series is not the top notch of all Yammies, but is manufactured in Japan (instead of some third world countries) and build of materials that should last a lifetime for me. A very good middle class instrument, that suits my playing skills. Besides classical piano music I also play a lot of Rock/Pop Piano which really comes to life with the bright Yamaha sound. And if I play music from the romantic era I simply shut the lid to get a darker tone.

The Germand Brands are still around... but even for a new Schimmel the size of my C2X I would have paid about 20k€ more. And that was no option for a hobbyist like me. A higher priced instrument would not make me a better player ;-)

Just 2 cents of someone who bought a grand piano in the near past. ;-)

Best wishes,
Joni


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15.09.2024 09:12
#3 RE: Talk about piano?
So

@ahlborn "....but I was wondering if Germans continue to buy German pianos."

IMG-20240512-WA0003.jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

Also eher: nein. 😢🙋‍♂️


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15.09.2024 09:23
#4 RE: Talk about piano?
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Administrator

Durchsage von Captain Niveau: Wir sinken...


Auf Orgelsuche.

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16.09.2024 09:53 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 16.09.2024 09:54)
avatar  Mixtura
#5 RE: Talk about piano?
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Brands Like Schimmel or Bechstein offer instruments for beginners that are cheaper. If you look closely you see that these products are manufactured in China, Korea or elsewhere. The Concept and At least the last quality check is German.
I know some people who are looking for a second hand high end quality product. If you’re not in a hurry to buy an instrument, you’ll surely find one. Many people prefer this way


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16.09.2024 13:12 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 16.09.2024 13:14)
avatar  ahlborn
#6 RE: Talk about piano?
ah

Thanks for the answers.
Yes, almost all European piano companies now have partnerships with Eastern companies to produce low-cost instruments.
In some cases, considering the technological development of the Far East in recent years, high-quality instruments are built, with very tight construction tolerances and quality materials.
I was just wondering if there was still a German market, as it could be in the 80s, for high-quality pianos, 100% made in Germany...


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Gestern 08:34
avatar  Mixtura
#7 RE: Talk about piano?
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Gestern 09:01 (zuletzt bearbeitet: Gestern 09:03)
#8 RE: Talk about piano?
So

Aus einer vergangenen Zeit:

"Die Qualität des Charis basiert auf den neusten Erkenntnissen unserer Braunschweiger Manufaktur aus über 170 Jahren Erfahrung im kunsthandwerklichen Klavier- und Flügelbau – verbunden mit der Liebe zur Musik."

https://www.piano-fischer.de/shop/akusti...schwarz-poliert


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Gestern 11:25
#9 RE: Talk about piano?
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Nun ja, wenn die Preisliste dieses Händlers für einen Flügel bei einem Preis endet, für den ich in meinem Wohnort ein Einfamilienhaus kaufen kann, und dort beginnt, wo ich mir einen Pkw kaufen kann, dann ist das nur ein Aspekt des Preisniveaus. Mit jeder neuen Eigentümerschaft will die nächste Ebene mitverdienen.
Z.B. sind bei Übernahme des Traditionsunternehmens (Blechblasinstrumente) Melton durch den französischen Konzern Buffet-Crampon die Preise mal eben um 25% gestiegen. Die Mitarbeiter wurden nicht besser bezahlt, das Material wurde nicht teuer, der Service wurde schlechter, die Qualität auch.

Der Alt-Besitzer findet keinen Nachfolger und will Kasse machen. Er vertickt das Traditionsunternehmen an einen Konzern, der auch Kasse machen will.
Das funktioniert bei Instrumenten-Herstellern eben so wenig wie bei Immobilien-Gesellschaften. Letztere sind nur meistens "to big to fail".

Wie der Altmeister Kostolany so schön sagte: "Gier frisst Hirn."

Und noch ein Spruch aus Kölner Handwerkerkreisen, der vermutlich auch anderswo gilt:
"Lieber einmal von der Bank als das ganze Leben für die Bank."
Meistens hört man den von Menschen zwischen 50 und 55, die der Meinung sind, dass die Arbeitsleistung für die Gesellschaft schon ausreichend umfangreich war.

Ohne die genauen Zusammenhänge bei Grotrian-Steinweg zu kennen, vermutlich sind die Probleme, die es jetzt gibt, bereits in den Jahren vor dem Verkauf an den heutigen Besitzer entstanden...


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