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Viscount Sonus 60 oder Positiv 346?
#16 RE:Viscount Sonus 60 oder Positiv 346?
Im Allgemeinen: mehr Lautsprecher = besser, mehr Verstärker = besser. Aus Ihren Geschichten geht hervor, dass der Sonus 60 besser klang und der P346 besser in Ihr Interieur passt. Aber beachten Sie beim Klang, dass mit den Intonationshilfen vieles eingestellt werden kann (siehe auch Bedienungsanleitung). Per saldo denke ich nicht, dass die Klangunterschiede sehr groß sind.
Wenn möglich, spielen Sie noch einmal und hören Sie sich beide an. Probieren Sie einige Intonationswerkzeuge aus. Und dann eine Entscheidung treffen.
Viel erfolg, bitte teile deine entscheiding mit im forum.
Ich glaube, die Physical Modeling software ist in alle Sonusse gleich. Am höchsten sind unterschiedene 'voices' darin (kleine Progrmmen, die ein Orgelregister 'modelen' oder 'simulieren' - aber nur via die Physiscal Modeling software.
Vielleicht kan Ahlborn hier definitieves sagen, wenn er mit lese.
#20 RE:Viscount Sonus 60 oder Positiv 346?
Guten Morgen! Ich wünsche allen eine gute Weihnachtsstimmung !! Ich bin Ihnen sehr dankbar, dass Sie an meiner schwierigen Wahl des Instruments teilgenommen haben. Ich habe seit meiner Kindheit eine große Liebe für positive Organe. Ich habe eine Monarche-Orgel zu Hause, aber ich benutze sie als virtuelle Orgel mit verschiedenen Samples eines Liebhabers. Der Besitzer des Andante Centers sagte mir, dass der Lautsprecher auf dem Positiv breiter ist und der Bass dort und dort 100 Watt entspricht. Der Sonus 60 klang, als würde er besonders das Geräusch einer Pfeife und eines Windes transportieren, die ich dort selbst auf Mixture in keinem Modell hörte. Takskak Ich habe früher geschrieben, dass ich ein schlechter Organist sein kann, aber als Musiklehrer habe ich den Unterschied im Klang sehr gut gehört. Ich habe nicht genug davon bei Hauptwerk, dass es eine Nuance in den viskosen Organen gibt, die ich in der Software der virtuellen Orgel nicht gefunden habe. Ich neige zu diesem kleinen Meister der Musik Sonus 60
#21 RE:Viscount Sonus 60 oder Positiv 346?
#22 RE:Viscount Sonus 60 oder Positiv 346?
Good morning.
I would like to intervene more often, but unfortunately I don't know German, and maybe someone can take offense if I write in English. I apologize for this.
Yes, the hardware and software platform is identical in all Physis models, from the small CL2 to the large Unico 800.
This means that the software and the amount of data of each stop is identical in all models.
The P346 model has two less channels, but you can add external speakers to have an acoustic performance even higher than the Sonus 60.
If you really want an audio configuration with 9 channels and 13 speakers, without giving up a gorgeous console, you can also evaluate the Ouverture model, which has these features. It also has some sub and super couplers, which can multiply the coloristic possibilities.
However, the cost is higher than P346
Zitat von ahlborn im Beitrag #24
...Yes, the hardware and software platform is identical in all Physis models, from the small CL2 to the large Unico 800. This means that the software and the amount of data of each stop is identical in all models.
Dear ahlborn,
thank you for this statement...
This statement will refute any other suggestions that have influenced this forum since the last years: all Viscount instruments based on PM have the same hardware. This includes the "new" 4man "Ouverture"...
That also confirms, that sub- and supercouplers as they are delivered with the Unico 800...
(take a closer look at "disposition")...
https://www.viscountinstruments.us/unico-800.html
...would be "technical" also possible on every other "common" physis-based instrument. Of course, these couplers are not available in Europe because most of european customers "don't want" or "request" them...
So - let me make it easier to understand:
Even a Sonus 60 or a Unico 400 has the hardware standard to be fit with sub- and supercouplers... No hardware restrictions would contradict this...
The only decision, that those instruments are not equipped with this features, is made by Viscount because the european customers don't expect these features...
Best regards,
Aeoline
P.S.
@all... - Die Aussagen von ahlborn halte ich für ausgesprochen "grundlegend", was unsere Physis-Diskussionen angeht. Wenn jemand von euch das englische Geschwafel nicht versteht, dann bitte hier melden... - ich füge dann allen Posts eine deutsche Übersetzung bei...
VG
Aeoline
Wenn ich ahlborns Posting richtig lese, dann ist Physis softwareseitig in jedem Orgelmodell dasselbe; das überrascht mich wenig, da eine modellweise differenzierte Software einen hohen technischen Aufwand verursachen würde.
Klar, je nach Modell (immer noch richtig gelesen?) sind diverse Einschränkungen ab Werk gegeben, etwa das Fehlen eines Ansteuerelements für Subkoppeln, Kanal- und Lautsprechersetup sowieso. Durch gezielt ausgewählte Hardware lassen sich also sehr leicht Unterschiede zwischen den Modellen erzielen; eine identische Hardware sehe ich also gerade nicht, wenn ich unterschiedliche Physis-Orgeln betrachte.
#27 RE:Viscount Sonus 60 oder Positiv 346?
Yes, I can guarantee that all Physis Viscount organs have the exact same hardware/software platform.
This also includes Overture 468 and Unico 800, and some custom models.
In American version there is also a three manual model with complete super and sub coupler: Unico 600.
The sub/super couplers are also in demand here in Europe, in England, where Regent builds custom organs, often with these couplers.
Yes, there would be no technical limitations for equipping a smaller model with sub/super couplers.
In another post I explained that the only determining factor is the amount of "polyphony" that can be reached with the number of DSPs installed.
To better understand, I will explain how the physis hardware is structured.
There is a motherboard, identical for all models: on this board there are the interface connections with the external controls (keyboard and pedal encoder, display, Pistons, stops tab, etc.).
On this motherboard, up to 7 cards can be inserted vertically which have different functions.
Starting from left to right:
1) DAC/Mixer board. This card exists in different versions, depending on whether the organ has more internal or external audio channels.
2) Sampled orchestral voice card. It is identical in all models, and contains the sampled sound data for orchestral voices. It has the flash memory in which the samples are stored, a RAM memory, and a sound generation chip exclusively for these voices.
3-4-5-6), These are 4 slots where to install the cards that contain the DSPs for sound computing of physical sounds. These cards exist in two versions: with two DSP (those commonly used), and with four DSP (often used in models with sub/super couplers).
Of course the number and type of cards installed depends directly on the maximum polyphony that is needed. So in the smaller two-keyboard models, two cards with two DSP each are sufficient (occupying only two slots), while in the models with many sub/super registers and couplers four cards are generally used, and the cards are with four DSPs each (or they can be a combination of these two types of cards, for example two cards with two DSP, and two cards with four DSP). Each of these cards in addition also contains a slave CPU and a ram memory.
7) CPU card. Contains the master CPU, a flash memory in which is stored O.S. and the physical voice files, etc.
a RAM memory, USB management chips, clock chips, the CR2032 lithium battery to power the clock when the organ is off.
This card is identical in all models.
Theoretically, it is possible to add sub/super couplers even in organ without it.
If the couplers are used in the same keyboard WITHOUT coupling more keyboards between them, theoretically it is not necessary to add DSP card's (or replace the DSP cards with the model with four DSPs, assuming that currently the organ has four cards with two DSPs). This is because the polyphony with the sub/super couplers in each keyboard (separately, without coupler the keyboards between them), is almost identical to the polyphony necessary with Tutti without sub/super but with coupler keyboards.
You can build a small accessory (for example with Arduino) to connect with MIDI, with tabs for sub and super couplers.
When a key is played, this accessory sends back (via the MIDI IN jack of the organ) the key data to the upper or lower octave.
If instead you want to use the crossed sub/super couplers between the keyboards, the necessary polyphony is superior and it will be necessary to add or replace the cards with the model with four DSPs.
There are also exclusive MIDI codes that Viscount uses for the internal management of the sub/super couplers, but I'm not sure that these messages are also implemented in models without these couplers. I should check ..
If this were the case, this accessory could be programmed to send these messages and the organ would internally manage the couplers (and in this case it would be enough to connect only the MIDI IN cable of the organ).
Of course, the software recognition of the number/type of DSP card is automatic (plug and play), this means that you can add or replace cards on an already purchased organ, without any type of manual update. The software will automatically recognize additional DSP cards.
#28 RE:Viscount Sonus 60 oder Positiv 346?
Hello Ahlborn,
first of all, let me thank you for your very in-depth explanation of the Physis organ topology!
Zitat von ahlborn im Beitrag #29
There are also exclusive MIDI codes that Viscount uses for the internal management of the sub/super couplers, but I'm not sure that these messages are also implemented in models without these couplers. I should check ..
If this were the case, this accessory could be programmed to send these messages and the organ would internally manage the couplers (and in this case it would be enough to connect only the MIDI IN cable of the organ).
I just gave this a try using my Concerto 234 / Sonus 40. Using MIDI-OX, I am able to send SysEx messages to enable and disable standard couplers and stops present in my organ as well as changing ensemble settings etc. However, the organ will ignore SysEx messages related to sub and super couplers like
F0 31 2F 70 22 11 F7 = Swell to Swell 16’ on
as well as
F0 31 2F 6A 00 F7 = Reed Cancel
which are not present as a piston or stop tab on the organ console. So I would assume that it is necessary to "enable" those functions in the organ configuration.
Maybe it's worth to try this using a larger instrument which has at least a small number of sub and super couplers like the Ouverture and check if the organ responds to some of the additional couplers listed in the US Physis manual.
BTW: Do you know (how to figure out) the SysEx codes to switch the Local ON/OFF as mentioned in the Physis 1.14.13 release notes? Unfortunately the Physis documentation has not yet been updated.
Best regards
Trompetendulzian
Zitat von Aeoline im Beitrag #26
@all... - Die Aussagen von ahlborn halte ich für ausgesprochen "grundlegend", was unsere Physis-Diskussionen angeht. Wenn jemand von euch das englische Geschwafel nicht versteht, dann bitte hier melden... - ich füge dann allen Posts eine deutsche Übersetzung bei...
Liebe Aeoline,
ich oute mich mal als ungenügender Europäer und gebe freimütig zu, dass meine Fremdsprachenkenntnisse sich auf etwas Latein beschränken. Solltest Du Dein Angebot also wahr machen und diese wertvollen Texte ins Deutsche oder Bayrische übertragen, so machst Du damit mindestens einen Forianer und begeisterten Physis-Jünger sehr glücklich!
Mit dankbarem Gruß
Flauten
Zitat von trompetendulzian im Beitrag #30
I just gave this a try using my Concerto 234 / Sonus 40. Using MIDI-OX, I am able to send SysEx messages to enable and disable standard couplers and stops present in my organ as well as changing ensemble settings etc. However, the organ will ignore SysEx messages related to sub and super couplers like1
F0 31 2F 70 22 11 F7 = Swell to Swell 16’ on
as well as1
F0 31 2F 6A 00 F7 = Reed Cancel
which are not present as a piston or stop tab on the organ console. So I would assume that it is necessary to "enable" those functions in the organ configuration.
Maybe it's worth to try this using a larger instrument which has at least a small number of sub and super couplers like the Ouverture and check if the organ responds to some of the additional couplers listed in the US Physis manual.
BTW: Do you know (how to figure out) the SysEx codes to switch the Local ON/OFF as mentioned in the Physis 1.14.13 release notes? Unfortunately the Physis documentation has not yet been updated.
Best regards
Trompetendulzian
Hello,
Unfortunately I don't know the SysEx data to put the stops in Local ON or Off. I hope to find these codes tomorrow. I will ask them to a friend who works in Viscount. Tomorrow is the last day of work, then the offices will be closed for the Christmas holidays from December 23rd to January 6th.
Regarding the sending of the SysEx midi codes to activate the sub/super coupler, have you verified that the filters in the reception are deactivated in the organ Midi menu?
Only "REAL TIME" filter should be activated.
If SysEx filters are also activated, the organ will not receive these data.
(However if you use Hauptwerk I think this filter is already deactivated, to make it work correctly)..
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