Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...

  • Seite 2 von 3
04.11.2021 12:50
#16 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
avatar

@ Wichernkantor

Bratz, bratz, bratz...


PLZ (erste zwei Ziffern): 69

 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 12:51
#17 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
avatar
Moderator

Und Loriot würde wieder einmal bemerken: Das ist fein beobachtet!

LG
Michael


 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 12:52
avatar  Aeoline
#18 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
avatar

Zitat von Wichernkantor im Beitrag #15
Seit wann schreiben zeitgenössische Dichter so was Gruftiges wie "Reime"?

Weil sie's können!



VG
Aeoline


Organisten leiden oft an einer schlimmen Krankheit: Augentinnitus - Man(n) sieht nur noch Pfeifen...

Viscount Unico 400 DE [V1.14.19] (56/III/P) : ab 11.2012
Johannus Opus 520 (45/II/P) : 10.1987-11.2012
Siel HB 700 (9/II/P) : 1977-09.1987)

 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 13:46 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 04.11.2021 13:46)
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#19 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

Zitat von Wichernkantor im Beitrag #9
Na ja, so Gott will und wir leben, gibt es ja im nächsten Jahr das sagenumwobene neue Physis, das ja eigentlich nichts mit Physis zu tun hat, sondern ein völlig neuer Weg der Klanggenerierung sein soll. Da müsste dann doch ein Sternchen zu den elementaren Fingerübungen gehören.

LG
Michael


Ciao Michael,

all these little anticipations are certainly producing great expectations for the new physis product. I think this is worth a small reflection as a) rumours tell that the new product is an evolution/adjustment of the old one and b) marketing needs to inflate things to sell them. Finally, who will be willing to spend more money or change their instrument if the new one is just a tuning of the old? Things must be completely, revolutionarily, unbelievably new. Like the iPhone, which is always new and always the same.

My current physis experience shows me that the essential core organ sound is already excellent and does not need improvement. What is missing is proper voicing, the room simulation and room response correction.

Voicing: this can be solved if someone, who knows how to voice, will take care of it. If nobody is available in the factory, take an Hauptwerk sample set, analyze it and copy it. You don't need a gifted voicer for this; anyone can do it.

Room simulation: is the most critical part of the whole thing, and it is more difficult to approach than voicing. I am currently using five reverb engines in my organs, and the result is out there for everyone to listen to. I use a dedicated PC for the reverb, and the sound processing takes the full computing power of an Intel i7 on my MacBook and an Apple M1 on a mac mini. Yes, just the reverb uses the same computing power of a medium-to-large Hauptwerk sample set. And without having any sound! :) Furthermore, the tuning of the reverb is even more complex than the voicing because there is only a small sweet spot where things sound right. Finding this requires knowing and handling early reflections, late reflections, pre-delays, equalization, modulation, and many other parameters. Ready-to-use presets do not work, or at least they are not satisfactory to my ears.

Now, supposed that voicing and room simulation problems are solved, a third critical factor makes everything sound from average to crap: the room response. This problem can be avoided if you listen through headphones. No headphones? Then it's a headache. On my Unico, I use a stereophonic audio system; on the Sonus, I use a 5.1 surround system. After the room simulation engines in both systems, I run a room correction software that corrects all resonances and most of the cancellations. The sound difference between untreated and treated is just huge. Standing waves? No software solution for that; change the orientation of the sub (easy).

All this to say that the essential elements for an excellent organ sound are already there with physis one and that all the rest will hardly be implemented in the new version because a) what kind of processors do they have to use? and b) who is the user who can manipulate the parameters to achieve a good sound?

I expect a trend-following update with new physis offering the voicing of X or Y or Z, as Johannus has done with the Live series. Hauptwerk is still ruling this world, although the present Physis already has the potential to outperform it. But as long as we witness new products like the Cantorum Trio, which sounds like my Viscount Sonata of the '90 and cannot even reproduce the first C of the diapason 8, I am not sure that we will witness any revolution.

I hope I'm wrong.

Sorry for the enormous off-topic message.

Ciao

Paolo


 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 14:19
avatar  mvn
#20 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
avatar
mvn

...... Das neue Land der......... ORGANISTEN .......... und......... DICHTER.........

LG
Martin

2014 - 2020 Gloria Concerto 234 DLX
2020 - ......... Gloria Concerto 350 Trend


 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 16:19
#21 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
avatar
Administrator

Well spoken, Paolo...
We will see. If Physis 2.0 is not good enough, it will not succeed. Therefore I strongly hope that it will be overwhelming.

@Aeoline: Na warte du nur....


Auf Orgelsuche.

 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 17:40
#22 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
avatar
Moderator

Zitat von DigitalPipes im Beitrag #19
My current physis experience shows me that the essential core organ sound is already excellent and does not need improvement. What is missing is proper voicing, the room simulation and room response correction.



Just in this fact we agreed in our yesterday talk about the new technology of generating "true" pipe sounds.
Whenever I think, that there is an improvement possible at the mixtures and the flute stops above a pitch of 2'.
We will see and hear, wether the new system brings a better room simulation. I would wish that too, indeed.
It seems to stay thrilling ...

LG
Michael


 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 17:45
avatar  wohli
#23 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
avatar

Zitat von Gemshorn im Beitrag #21


@Aeoline: Na warte du nur....




Alles nur Neid - die Wurzel allen Übels ...


 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 17:59
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#24 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

Zitat von Wichernkantor im Beitrag #22
Zitat von DigitalPipes im Beitrag #19
My current physis experience shows me that the essential core organ sound is already excellent and does not need improvement. What is missing is proper voicing, the room simulation and room response correction.



Just in this fact we aggreed in our yesterday talk about the new technology of generating "true" pipe sounds.
Whenever I think, that there is an improvement possible at the mixtures and the flute stops above a pitch of 2'.
We will see and hear, wether the hew system brings a better room simulation. I would wish that too, indeed.
It seems to stay thrilling ...

LG
Michael



Someone more informed than us, recently investigated whether I was using the new technology in my videos... that says it all :D


 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 18:24
#25 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
avatar

Zitat von DigitalPipes im Beitrag #24

Someone more informed than us, recently investigated whether I was using the new technology in my videos... that says it all :D

If they manage to make the organs sound as well as in your videos, but out of the box, or with (relatively) easy configuration options, that will be a strong selling point indeed.

From a software development perspective, it's likely the new system isn't very different from the current one, or they would have much more effort maintaining both. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to keep it as backward-compatible as possible. I agree that additions seem more likely than revolutions in the existing features.


 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 18:29
#26 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
avatar
Moderator

Zitat von Regal acht im Beitrag #25
From a software development perspective, it's likely the new system isn't very different from the current one, or they would have much more effort maintaining both. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to keep it as backward-compatible as possible. I agree that additions seem more likely than revolutions in the existing features.


Das ist leider von Anfang an völlig anders kommuniziert worden. Da hieß es: "Wir machen etwas ganz Neues, das mit dem alten Physis nichts mehr zu tun hat" - und damit wohl auch nicht abwärtskompatibel ist.
Aber - warten wir's ab. Die Ohren entscheiden, nicht die Technologie. Jedenfalls bei mir.

LG
Michael


 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 18:30
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#27 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

Zitat von Regal acht im Beitrag #25
Zitat von DigitalPipes im Beitrag #24

Someone more informed than us, recently investigated whether I was using the new technology in my videos... that says it all :D

If they manage to make the organs sound as well as in your videos, but out of the box, or with (relatively) easy configuration options, that will be a strong selling point indeed.

From a software development perspective, it's likely the new system isn't very different from the current one, or they would have much more effort maintaining both. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to keep it as backward-compatible as possible. I agree that additions seem more likely than revolutions in the existing features.


Yes, that would make certainly sense. There are a lot of things that can be addressed and improved. Certain stops as Michael mentioned, maybe a better equaliser, certainly a better reverb (hopefully not a dead convoler), and other things. The new kid will come dressed in a new suit: new stop tabs, new thumb pistons, all new sellable features because it "must" look different. And if it sounds like mine out of the box, well done Viscount! :D


 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 18:33
#28 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
avatar
Moderator

Uuuups, wir sind ja ganz schön abgekommen von meinem harmlosen Glockengeklingel. Lieber Admin, geht da was mit einem eigenen Thread? - Titelvorschlag: Physis-Spekulatius ...

LG
Michael


 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 19:05 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 04.11.2021 19:05)
avatar  ahlborn
#29 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
ah

I totally agree with Paolo.
The current Physis already offers excellent sound generation.
There may be other elements that a new technology could justify.

What I personally would like would be a new use of modeling technology to manage the pipes transient attack with absolute realism as in tracker organ.
This assumes that if the key is pushed down only a millimeter, only a "whistle" from the pipe will be heard, and the sound will gradually form as you continue to lower the key. Just like in tracker organ.
Currently physis manages the attack transient starting from a minimum value which however corresponds to an already "pre-formed" sound. More than a tracker organ, it resembles a "proportional" electric action (in Italy, Mascioni has built some of these organs: they are electric action with digitally servo-assisted solenoids and with variable activation speed detected by the keyboard activation speed).

The new technology may have the computing power necessary to handle this, but I doubt it will be implemented as it would require continuous monitoring of the key position. You should manage the position of each single key (perhaps an optical control?), to define exactly how the pipe should sound in a pallet opening range from minimum to maximum.
But, if even the computing power would be enough to handle this new (utopian) aspect, I assume the main obstacle is the cost of implementing a continuous position sensing keyboard controller.
And of course this should also apply to the pedal board (which currently does not have speed sensing). I think it is too expensive to implement.

Furthermore, it would be necessary to assess what the acceptance by the market would be.
If here in Europe there is a strong appreciation for the tracker organ, in America and in the rest of the world this implementation could be ignored, because perhaps they appreciate the electric action more.

However, if implemented, Viscount would be the absolute world leader in generating the most realistic pipe tone.


Ciao,

Gianluca


 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
04.11.2021 19:09
avatar  ahlborn
#30 RE: Weihnachten ist nicht mehr weit ...
ah

Zitat von Wichernkantor im Beitrag #1
Daher nehmet und vernehmet dies:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/el5s66racda7so...ckchen.wav?dl=0

LG
Michael


Beautiful!


 Antworten

 Beitrag melden
Bereits Mitglied?
Jetzt anmelden!
Mitglied werden?
Jetzt registrieren!