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Physis "aufbohren"
DigitalPipes
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#1 Physis "aufbohren"
Zitat von ahlborn im Beitrag Mitglied im Forum
There is no doubt that every organist may have different needs in the search for his ideal home/practice organ. Different technologies and different approaches serve to satisfy people's tastes which may be different.
In my opinion, the current large choice offered by the various manufacturers is a great advantage; let's not forget what was the choice (and the ridiculous sound) of domestic organs in the analog period... today we have to be happy that there are several companies offering many instruments with different approaches.
It may happen that someone doesn't like the physis sound, just like someone doesn't like the sampled sound, there is nothing wrong with that. And also the optional details such as the cabinet/furniture type, stop tabs with display or static, keyboards, etc. they can be an important element in choosing an organ.
Once again, today all companies allow the choice of these details, even for small organs. This was quite unlikely in the analog and early digital era, where customization possibilities were very few.
So it is welcome that today there is much more choice in models, and in technologies, and they allow everyone (even with different technological philosophies) to enjoy a mature organ sound.
@ Paolo: yes, it is true that the physis factory styles are quite banal, but the various national distributors also offer the different custom styles as standard to adapt the sound to their local taste. For example in the UK the styles are completely reworked to offer a totally British sound, and also in America the sounds are completely different; there is probably a greater focus on sound to deliver organs that already sound very good right out of the box..
Physis has, already now, the power to outperform Hauptwerk. Sell it with 4 GOOD voicings (for those who want the plug-and-play solution) topped by the amazing flexibility of the system (for nerds like us). That's the whole winning recipe.
I am totally intrigued by how listening habits change over time, or differ from the ground up anyway. At the moment, for example, I can get very excited about the "Deutsch" style included on my Concerto 350 (=Sonus 60). Do you really consider the included styles to be so grotty? I have made a few modifications to the included "Deutsch" style and the result is currently my default setting for my daily organ sessions.
In the default voicings everything “screams” especially in the higher octaves. Once the amplitude relationship among the stops is re-established according to the basic rules of voicing, everything gets already better. There are then high-pitched stops (mixtures, XV, XIX, and others) that need to be tamed even further to avoid the production of annoying frequencies that are not normally there in pipe organs. Some mixture stops are, to my ears, totally unusable. However, since there are some hundreds stops available, and voicing tools for each stop, good voicing with different character can be created. The routing of the sound is also critical, “poly” mode being the one that produces the most transparent and undistorted result. When I bought my Sonus 60 I had to take a huge leap of faith and believe I could make is sound better (using the console as midi controller for Hauptwerk was plan B). If I had to stick to the default voicing, I would have looked somewhere else.
Zitat von Untersatz im Beitrag #21
I am totally intrigued by how listening habits change over time, or differ from the ground up anyway. At the moment, for example, I can get very excited about the "Deutsch" style included on my Concerto 350 (=Sonus 60). Do you really consider the included styles to be so grotty? I have made a few modifications to the included "Deutsch" style and the result is currently my default setting for my daily organ sessions.
Your Gloria is offered by Kisselbach with styles, which as far as I know, are not the ones that come out of Mondaino, but Kisselbach puts completely reworked preset intonations.
So the preset styles of the "Deutsch" version of the Sonus 60 are not the same as those of the Concerto 350; Kisselbach probably put in his reworked (and probably much better) intonations as a preset.
But I would also like to say this. When I bought the Sonus 60, I had the Sonus 40 placed in my living room for 4 years.
To make way for the Sonus 60, I moved the 40 to another smaller room.
Well, I had to refurbish all my styles because in the new room they just didn't sound as good as in the living room.
This is to say that in my opinion, any style, even very refined and highly elaborate, will always need some adjustment to make it sound good in the room where the organ is.
Not that that's a bad thing, but basic knowledge of the art of voicing will always be needed to make an organ sound its best in a particular room. And this regardless of the technology used (physis, sampling, etc.).
Zitat von DigitalPipes im Beitrag #22
In the default voicings everything “screams” especially in the higher octaves.
I totally confirm.
In many stops even the wind noise was excessive and unnatural.
And at almost all stops the "release" parameter was set to 0, creating an unnatural release.
Also many combinations of stops (eg Principale / Ottava / XV of the same section) were simply "wrong" by type of timbre type and by type of chiff sound creating a very unnatural effect.
I had to work a lot of time to make everything "right" for my ears and my environment (in relation to the type of organ I wanted to "build")
Zitat von ahlborn im Beitrag #25Zitat von DigitalPipes im Beitrag #22
In the default voicings everything “screams” especially in the higher octaves.
I had to work a lot of time to make everything "right" for my ears and my environment (in relation to the type of organ I wanted to "build")
Ho perso il conto delle ore ;)
That probably makes a lot of sense. I remember my visit to Thomann last year where I played a Sonus (an original one, no Kisselbach version) and I really didn't like the sound. When I visited Kisselbach afterwards and played the Concerto I was totally fascinated by the sound. So most probably the default voicings of the Concertos already underwent some kind of work-over that at least to my ears make them much smoother and more realistic.
The selling network in Italy is catastrophic. Even those supposed to be specialized in dealing with digital classic organs cannot make a whatsoever slight improvement in the voicing. Organs and ukuleles sold side by side.
The forum meeting at Kisselbach was a revelation for me.
Zitat von ahlborn im Beitrag #23
Well, I had to refurbish all my styles because in the new room they just didn't sound as good as in the living room.
This is to say that in my opinion, any style, even very refined and highly elaborate, will always need some adjustment to make it sound good in the room where the organ is.
Not that that's a bad thing, but basic knowledge of the art of voicing will always be needed to make an organ sound its best in a particular room. And this regardless of the technology used (physis, sampling, etc.).
Gut formuliert, aber - nach meiner subjektiven Beobchtung - von erstaunlich wenigen Leuten verstanden und beachtet.
Und selbstverständlich sind die subjektiven Klangvorstellungen aller(!) Menschen höchst unterschiedlich und wohl auch dem steten Wandel unterlegen. Das gilt ja auch für Pfeifen-Orgeln: Dem einen gefallen Orgeln des Orgelbauers A), dem anderen die des Orgelbauers B), und, und, und, . . . Wie oft war ich schon begeistert von Orgel A), stand mit meiner Meinug dann aber ziemlich allein da. Und wieviele Kirchenorgeln wurden schon komplett auf den Kopf gestellt, nachdem sie lange Jahre treu und zur Zufriedenheit vieler Organisten und Zuhörer ihren Dienst getan hatten, und plötzlich ein neuer Organist mit komplett anderen Klangvorstellungen seinen Dienst angetreten hat . . .
Und noch zu Ulrich und der etwas unglücklich angestoßenen Diskussion: Schade, dass Du uns verlassen hast, und Dir alles Gute! Und Du bist uns nicht die geringste Rechenschaft darüber schuldig, warum Du Dich von Deinem Instrument getrennt hast.
Mit herzlichem Gruß
Flauten
#12 RE:Physis "aufbohren"
Danke Flauten. Dem möchte ich auch von mir hinzufügen:
Lieber Ulrich, vielen Dank für die offenen Worte. Ich bewundere Deine Konsequenz, ein Thema angegangen und wirklich ausprobiert und dann gemerkt zu haben "Passt für mich nicht!" - und das Thema dann auch richtig abzu. Das macht Platz im Kopf und im Leben für neue Aktivitäten. Sollte man öfter so machen (sagt jemand rückblickend aus Erfahrung). Dir wünsche ich für die neuen Aktivitäten oder auch nur den Freiraum alles Gute!
@Paolo: Many thanks for your clear words and comments about Physis. Seem to confirm a lot of my reservations about it. Do I get it right that basically you are saying Viscount is at present only selling good hardware und good software but leaves it to the customer to make it sound fantastic? So, Sonus etc. are something like a DIY-kit, actually?
Deutsche Übersetzung mit deepl:
Vielen Dank für Ihre klaren Worte und Kommentare zu Physis. Sie scheinen viele meiner Vorbehalte zu bestätigen. Verstehe ich das richtig, dass Sie im Grunde sagen, dass Viscount derzeit nur gute Hardware und gute Software verkauft, es aber dem Kunden überlässt, diese fantastisch klingen zu lassen? Also sind Sonus etc. eigentlich so etwas wie ein Do-It-Yourself-Baukasten?
Translation English - Italienisch mit deepl *):
Molte grazie per le tue chiare parole e commenti su Physis. Sembrano confermare molte delle mie riserve su di esso. Ho capito bene che fondamentalmente stai dicendo che Viscount al momento vende solo buon hardware e buon software ma lascia al cliente il compito di renderlo fantastico? Quindi, Sonus ecc. sono qualcosa come un kit fai-da-te, in realtà?
*) Übersetzungen von und nach Englisch sind IMHO schon weit besser als zwischen den "kleineren" Sprachen.
Zitat von Laurie 3.0 im Beitrag #30
@Paolo: Many thanks for your clear words and comments about Physis. Seem to confirm a lot of my reservations about it. Do I get it right that basically you are saying Viscount is at present only selling good hardware und good software but leaves it to the customer to make it sound fantastic? So, Sonus etc. are something like a DIY-kit, actually?
I am sure it’s not Viscount’s intention to sell a product that requires deep after-sale customization to excel. What I have heard so far about the next generation of instruments is that they are moving towards a more ready-to-wear product, I suppose following the feedback they received from their sales network (I like to think positively…). I am at loss to understand, however, why the potential improvements are not applied on the current range of instruments, considering that there is a flourishing community of users that developed and customized their products well beyond the default performance level.
#14 RE:Physis "aufbohren"
[/quote]
I am at loss to understand, however, why the potential improvements are not applied on the current range of instruments, considering that there is a flourishing community of users that developed and customized their products well beyond the default performance level. [/quote]
That makes two of us then.
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