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Viscount-Klaviaturen
Gemshorn,
fixed key velocity 127 is fast, 1 is slow. So the most exact touch is with key velocity 1. Tracker touch must be 'on'. With Tracker touch 'off' there is no difference between fkv =1 and fkv=127.
ahlborn, this seems in contradiction with this:
Zitat von ahlborn im Beitrag #3I tested it this way:
Of course, by setting a fixed value, the touch tracker function is deactivated, and the attack transient is influenced by the velocity set value.
Röhrflöt 8, character -4, wind +4, attack 8. I think that gives the most response delay. I do fast keystrokes on large C.
fkv = 127 gives little attack transient,
fkv = 1 gives maximum attack transient.
But only with tracker touch (TT) 'on'. With TT off there is no difference. With TT on and quick strokes, there is even no sound audible in this test, presumably because the 'air' has no time to make the 'pipe' resonating. With TT off there is almost immediately an audible response. So I would think, even with fixed value the TT has much influence, or am I wrong somewhere?
Strange enough, when I set the key velocity setting on 'soft', I can hear NO difference between TT on or TT off. On hard there is difference, but compared with the fixed values it is less pronounced.
Good morning!
I explain what happened.
The Tracker Touch function is subordinate to the Midi setting parameters of the keyboards only when it is set to "On".
When it is "Off", a mathematical average of the "Attack" values of the stops is calculated, and remains unchanged (in reality, up to a certain point, because the system always processes information on the air flow of the pipe, which vary if a note is repeated).
When the Tracker Touch is set "On", the system obtains the velocity data by the keyboard (or on the fixed value of the key velocity set) and compares them with the data of the "Attack" parameter set on each stop.
The highest key velocity corresponds to the maximum value set manually on the "Attack" stop parameter, while the minimum key velocity value always corresponds to the maximum absolute value of "Attack".
I give an example:
Rohrflote: Attack = 2 (a low value corresponds to a fast attack)
When the key velocity is at maximum (127) it corresponds to the Attack value = 2 of the Rohrflote. When the key velocity has lower values, the Attack parameter value (virtually) increase, and therefore the lowest key velocity necessarily corresponds to the "8" value of attack (slowest attack).
Now, let's take the example of the Rohrflote set with Attack = 8 (maximum value that corresponds to a slow attack).
Also in this case, when the key velocity is at its maximum, it corresponds to the maximum manually set value of Attack (8) and therefore, paradoxically, a very slow attack. When the key velocity is lowered, the Attack parameter always remains 8, because the system cannot go further with the values. However, even if the attack speed remains unchanged (very slow in this case), changes related to the sound of the initial air jet take place; therefore lowering the key velocity, even with an Attack parameter of 8, there will always be small variations in the noise of the initial air jet (chiff), which is very useful for imitating what happens in a pneumatic or electric organ.
This is because the attack speed of the sound is the most easily noticed element, but in reality other elements such as the type of chiff sound that is modified with the key velocity values also intervene.
Thanks for this explanation! I experimented a lot with the TT, but without the knowledge you obviously have, it was like looking for a rabbit in a firwood.
I restart my eperiments, althoug I'm rather happy with TT = on and velocity = soft.
#21 RE: Viscount-Klaviaturen
Zitat von ahlborn im Beitrag #19
Good morning!
I explain what happened.
Hallo Ahlborn,
inzwischen raucht mein Kopf, und meine Ohren pfeifen, aber nach gründlicher Lektüre Deiner ausgezeichneten und sehr aufschlussreichen Erläuterungen und einer anschließenden ausgiebigen Test-Session die vergangen 2 Stunden habe ich in Bezug auf Physis wieder einiges mehr verstanden. Ganz, ganz, herzlichen Dank dafür!
Etwas unschlüssig bin ich noch ob der genauen Wirkungsweise der 3 vorgegebenen Dynamikkurven. Ich glaube aber, dass mir die Einstellung "soft" am authentischsten wirkt.
Sehr aufschlussreich und interessant waren übrigens auch Deine zur Verfügung gestellten Klangbeispiele. Da komme ich jetzt schon fast schon in Versuchung trotz meines sehr laienhaften Spiels nach vollendeter Intonation ebenfalls Klangbeispiele zur allgemeinen Diskussion zur stellen . . .
Mit sehr, sehr dankbarem Gruß
Flauten
#24 RE: Viscount-Klaviaturen
#26 RE: Viscount-Klaviaturen
Werner Walcker-Mayer beschreibt in seinem Buch "Die Gestaltung des Orgelspieltisches" aus 1968 (im Eigenverlag) ein "italienisches Pedal", das leicht radial angelegt ist und bei 32 Tasten eine Gesamtbreite von 1310 mm aufweist. Die AGO-Normbreite betrug damals 1365 mm, das (hauseigene) 30-Tasten-Parallepedal ist mit 1140 mm angegeben - gemessen jeweils von der Mitte des tiefsten bis zur Mitte der höchsten Tons. Bei einer Tastenteilung von 33,5 mm pro Halbton wären für den Umfang bis g1 noch 67 mm zu addieren. Das dürfte damalige BDO-Norm gewesen sein. (Wenn keiner so genau hinguckte, baute Walcker auch gern Pedal dis0 unter Manual dis. Dann sparte man 5 cm Spieltischbreite rechts ... Ein immenser Kostenvorteil! )
Das italienische Pedal nach Walcker soll auf Fernando Germani zurückgehen und wurde in Angeboten gern als "Germani-Pedal" bezeichnet.
LG
Michael
Und Steinmeyer war schneller: Aufgrund seiner Erfahrungen im amerikanischen Orgelbau bot Hans St. bereits in den 20-er Jahren dreifach geschweifte Pedale an, die jedoch keinen Beifall bei den potenziellen Kunden fanden.
Ebenso war es mit den geteilten Kombinationen/Divisionals...
Orgelkater
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#28 RE: Viscount-Klaviaturen
Und auch wenn es eigentlich ein neuer Thread wäre:
Schaut doch mal auf Allens Website und ihre Pedallösungen:
Allen Pedale
@Michael, Thanks!
Yes, in Italy, until the 1960s, when all organs were whit electric action, the largest companies (Tamburini, Mascioni) built concave radial pedalboards with measurements indicated by Fernando Germani; they were pedalboards who had to adapt to the eclectic style. According to Germani they could be used both to perform Bach, as well as romantics or contemporaries. The only company that kept the measures designed independently was Balbiani Vegezzi Bossi, wich they differed both from the AGO standard and from Germani's measures
When the movement of the historic organ rediscovery occurred at the end of the 1960s, the first mechanical organs were built, which however still maintained the eclectic ideal, and often still had concave radial pedals (in some cases only the keyboards were mechanical, the pedal was electric!). Only towards the end of the 70s were mechanical organs (in some cases historical copies) built with a truly historic sound aesthetic, and these instruments finally had key and pedal measurements with original measures.
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