Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)

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31.05.2023 16:39
#136 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
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Zitat von DigitalPipes im Beitrag #135
That is called inflation , and it is independent of commercial policies

Nicht, wenn der Hersteller eine willkürliche Preiserhöhung macht, die nicht mit gestiegenen Kosten in Verbindung steht. Wenn Johannus z.B. ab morgen die Studio 150 für 12000,- anbietet, damit sie sich wertiger anfühlt und nicht mit der Optimus+ 2-28 verglichen wird, ... (=
Der Nachteil/Vorteil bei schon getätigtem Kauf ist dann nur ein empfundener, bzw. er besteht nur im Konjunktiv.

(Peer Steinbrück würde dazu sagen: "Hätte, hätte, Fahrradkette" -- aber selbst deepl macht daraus nichts Brauchbares auf englisch ;) )


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31.05.2023 17:26 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 31.05.2023 17:27)
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#137 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

We are having the opposite case here, with new instruments being cheaper than the old ones. Since there is currently an objective increase of raw material and labour costs, one would wonder what was the actual value of the instruments sold/bought so far and what mark ups had been applied…


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31.05.2023 19:51
avatar  live3TA
#138 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
li

Zitat von Regal acht im Beitrag #134
Meine Idee war nur, dass man die Leute, die aus schrecklich wichtigen Gründen keine zwei Jahre mehr auf Physis+ warten können/wollen, damit zumindest bei der Stange halten könnte ;)


Given the puzzling sound "demos" and slowly creeping roll-out of Physis Plus, it is likely only the daring or foolish who jumps at this point. But, for the daring I have admiration for their bravery.

Zitat von Gemshorn im Beitrag #129
Ich will damit sagen: Wir hatten das alles schon einmal.
Dass aus den damaligen Fehlern nicht gelernt wurde oder - im Prinzip noch schlimmer - das Defizit womöglich vom Hersteller gar nicht er-hört wird, wundert einen freilich schon.


I am definitely relieved to hear that this seems to be Viscount's usual process, but I'm also alarmed by how slowly they're taking market advantage of Physis Plus in model lines Opera to Domus. Yes, revenue from one Opera is multiples of a Domus BUT how much revenue could be had for the sales taken from Johannus Studios and other vendors' entry-level models? Maybe Viscount isn't production ready and they aren't looking to do dominate the lower end...

@DigitalPipes mentioned elsewhere that Viscount UK and North America haven't posted the Physis Plus sound demos--this makes good sense given the general impression the demos leave. But, as a potential Physis Plus customer Viscount North America's website provides no confidence: the sole Southern California authorized dealer "Viscount Direct" only has a phone number and the sole Northern California authorized dealer has a phone number and a link to a defunct website. So, customers in the most populous state in the U.S. can only call "mysterious" phone numbers. Worse, the website only shows upscale/pimped out Americanized Viscount models--no entry level versions of Domus, Sonus, etc. I guess here they expect only the wealthy to buy DOs.


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31.05.2023 19:55
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#139 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

Zitat von live3TA im Beitrag #138
Worse, the website only shows upscale/pimped out Americanized Viscount models--no entry level versions of Domus, Sonus, etc. I guess here they expect only the wealthy to buy DOs.


Jeff, have you seen the GM of Viscount North America? Looks like and speaks like those car dealers from the '80s that we see in some American movies...


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31.05.2023 19:57
#140 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
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Gibt es in Amerika überhaupt einen Markt für Einsteigermodelle? Nachdem dort ewig lang Rodgers und ähnlich "günstige" Hersteller die Marktführerschaft innehatten (und haben?) kann ich mir kaum vorstellen, dass der Bedarf nach USD 5000,- Orgeln dort hoch wäre.


Auf Orgelsuche.

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31.05.2023 22:58
avatar  live3TA
#141 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
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Zitat von DigitalPipes im Beitrag #139

Jeff, have you seen the GM of Viscount North America? Looks like and speaks like those car dealers from the '80s that we see in some American movies...


OMG!! I could only bring myself to watch 15 minutes of a 40+ minute video of the GM--he only communicated 2 simple ideas in the first 15 minutes...lots of blather/bluster for filler. The video seemed to be addressing church organ committees, so I'm guessing few organ committees would follow-up after watching that...[bad] wow...

Zitat von Gemshorn im Beitrag #140
Gibt es in Amerika überhaupt einen Markt für Einsteigermodelle? Nachdem dort ewig lang Rodgers und ähnlich "günstige" Hersteller die Marktführerschaft innehatten (und haben?) kann ich mir kaum vorstellen, dass der Bedarf nach USD 5000,- Orgeln dort hoch wäre.


You're right...there look to be only Johannus and Allen entry level organs in Southern California and both cost notably more than USD 5000. The Rodgers "entry" level instruments are above the USD 20,000, so I guess Hauptwerk is the winner in this market (probably a good use of "for cheap"/"for free" organ consoles).

I'll just be quiet about markets for DOs and do whatever I'm going to do regardless of the vitality of the local market...signing off on this topic--good luck with it!


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01.06.2023 16:04 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 01.06.2023 16:16)
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#142 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

And when you think it cannot get worse…




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01.06.2023 17:47 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 01.06.2023 17:51)
avatar  live3TA
#143 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
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Zitat von DigitalPipes im Beitrag #142
And when you think it cannot get worse…




No thoughts about buying markets, but what if Viscount (on purpose or by accident) is underpromising with the strong likelihood of overdelivering?

In my prior career, most colleagues would try not to say anything about their delivery of products/services and the ones who spoke up most loudly, almost to a person, way overpromised and notably underdelivered.

Being of much shame and almost the same amount of modesty, I nearly always underpromised and was able to deliver or overdeliver on those promises....what if that is what Viscount is doing with the sound recordings? Much of the Raffy Sortie has nothing that a Rodgers or other electronic organ couldn't match but there are little sound hints peaking at a few edges of what will be Viscount's Physis Plus advantage--do it by vastly underpromising (demo recordings) and notably overdelivering (capable digital instruments).

At least that's how I want to think about it!


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01.06.2023 17:56
#144 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
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Oder sie genießen es einfach, das Forum aufzuscheuchen =)


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01.06.2023 18:19 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 01.06.2023 18:22)
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#145 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

Zitat von live3TA im Beitrag #143
but there are little sound hints peaking at a few edges of what will be Viscount's Physis Plus advantage


I have to agree with you on this. My ears can detect the potential in the depths of that digital chaos. Will other’s ears be able to do the same?

Zitat von Regal acht im Beitrag #144
Oder sie genießen es einfach, das Forum aufzuscheuchen =)


That would be sadistic indeed!


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01.06.2023 18:43
#146 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
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Zitat von Regal acht im Beitrag #144
Oder sie genießen es einfach, das Forum aufzuscheuchen =)

Das wäre allerdings infamer und zugleich genialer als ich es ihnen zutraue!


Auf Orgelsuche.

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01.06.2023 20:37
#147 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
Ro

Unfassbar!


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01.06.2023 21:17
#148 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
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Tja, und wieder ein neues Video...
Unbeschreiblich!

PLZ (erste zwei Ziffern): 69

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02.06.2023 06:59
avatar  DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )
#149 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
Di
DigitalPipes ( gelöscht )

I can’t get over the chopping of the very first chord.

Anyway, the video is also a good example of how to poorly set the reverb: too little early reflections, way too much late reflections (now that, with the new reverb, it is possible to manipulate their ratio).

Maybe Jeff is right, we might be missing the subtle strategy behind these videos. Yes, it must be like that…


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02.06.2023 11:51 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 02.06.2023 12:08)
avatar  ahlborn
#150 RE: Vergleich Physis/Physis plus (Boëllmann-Toccata)
ah

Good morning everyone! How are you? After various family vicissitudes, I hope to be able to attend the forum more consistently. I missed you (although I was occasionally able to read the threads).
I listened to this last video and was baffled.
I thought it was the generation technology of the Cantorum Duo, but instead it was Physis plus!
And paradoxically, I hear some elements that really bring it closer to ARTEM technology, but also others that remind me of modeling technology, especially in the final chord, that "movement" of tuning in the mixtures makes them appear really realistic, it almost seems like they managed to integrate very well the result of timbre transformation (I'm not referring to the morphing of the swell box) that occurs on the mixtures in the pressure drops (since a momentary lowering of pressure not only generates a shift in tuning, but has rather more complex effects on the chiff, on the timbre and on the volume); also in long chords, the mixtures seem to produce a very realistic TONAL effect.
While, other characteristics, such as the too simultaneous attack of stops that play simultaneously (it would have been nice to integrate a parameter to simulate the emission delay for each section -better for each stop-), and also the too uniform (and exaggerated) release for all stops (I would have expected a much more accurate "dynamics" implementation), they very closely remind me of any sampled organ. The feeling is that they have exaggerated with a sort of "condensed" of what happens in the organs in the attacks and releases of large combinations of stops: a sort of oversimplification of these two elements. While in long chords, something interesting is perceived that happens BETWEEN the combinations of stops.

I also have a terrible suspicion: maybe the new Physis plus is a combination of sampling and modeling?
Many musical instruments are going in this direction (Kawai -but not only- uses a combination of sampling and modeling for digital pianos), and perhaps it would explain the limited number of alternative voices (for me 5 alternative voices per tab is really too few).
It's just a speculation.. and maybe I'm wrong.. but..

P.s. I agree with Paolo, the reverb is just wrong.
Furthermore, the reverb tail of the low frequencies is almost completely missing, making the low notes appear completely detached from the context of the environment. I'm incredulous..


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